Perhaps you readers of the Donkey have heard that the former president of Taiwan was given a life sentence for corruption and the misappropriation of state funds. Despite the seriousness of his crime the sentence was inappropriately severe and the trial was marked by irregularities. It reflects the growing influence of China on the KMT government in Taiwan. Chen fought for independence and now he is being punished for it. It is retribution, plain and simple. In an Economist article on the subject I responded to a Chinese poster who wrote an off-topic diatribe on how Westerners love to bash China. Any articles critical of China in the Western press are flooded with these baseless accusations from blindly patriotic Chinese nationalists. It is a troubling product of the Communist Party's program of propaganda. They draw attention away from their own short-comings by encouraging the demonizing of others.
Here is a link to the original article.
Here is the comment which I felt the need to respond to:
justlistenall wrote: September 16, 2009 18:14
On account of this article, many posters have offered good opinions about Mr. Chen Bian’s verdict, Pro and con.
But, do you know why even for a relatively local article on the conviction of Mr. Chen in Taiwan, there are still a few posters with postings after postings to bash Chinese value and system and China’s leaders (It's laughable that some undoubtedly with double poster pen names to play up its postings by the tale telling duet endorsing of each other)?
Here is why in my view:
1. Subconsciously, these posters are resigned to the fact that Taiwan is a part of China and that Taiwanese and Mainlanders are all Chinese. That’s why whenever the word Taiwan is mentioned, it immediately triggers their nerves on matters concerning China.
2. They can’t stand the thought or the fact rather, although they can’t do anything about it that China is awakening and prospering.
China today is Japan’s largest importer, replacing the U.S., that is helpful on Japan’s economy recovery, and China is India’s largest exporter. China is world’s first nation to develop and dispense immunization formula for H1N1; about two weeks ahead of the U.S. which is troubled by more than 400 unfortunate deaths.
China runs worlds fastest regularly scheduled commercial trains (Beijing-Tinjing) at 340 Km/H a clip; and China spends about $30 m a day constructing Beijing-Shanghai high speed railway soon to be finished ….
3. China of course has problems to work at too, and tons of them. These postings just can’t pass up any chance to jump in to ridicule these problems with brutal exaggeration and graphic distortion, wishing in their sick minds that China would remain and get stuck in the problems and the more the merrier for them.
All these words of “human rights”, “totalitarianism”, “ethnic strife” etc. out of their pseudo fancy bashing postings are but abusive cover for their dark side or inside.
Such are the general state of postings of China bashing in my observation on the forum of this article. I feel sorry for these bashing posters.
Then again, they are serving unwittingly as some negative material to remind people to work harder for the good of their country, China, the U.S., India,… indeed whichever their country happens to be.
and my comment in response:
> > China bashing? What a joke. The irony of you throngs of Chinese posters that
> > jump all over even the smallest criticism of your country, is that you're
> > demonstrating how you've yet to mature as a truly modern country. You think
> > because you have fast trains it somehow excuses the fact that China doesn't
> > have free speech. Thank God there are those in the West who take time to
> > point out the flaws in China because in your country, doing the same can land
> > you in jail. Why don't you grow up and show how much you really love China by
> > starting to criticize it yourselves. That is the only way it will ever
> > improve.
The above comment of mine was deleted without any indication or explanation. The comment I was responding to was allowed to stand along with the following one which mocks my language in garbled English:
religionofreason wrote:
September 17, 2009 15:50
Thank God there are those in the China who take time to point out the flaws in West prejudices and politic zealots because in your country, doing the same can land you in minor sideline. Why don't you grow up and show how much you really love democracy by starting to criticize it yourselves. That is the only way it will ever improve and gaining the convincing credit.I repeat that my comment was deleted but the preceding and following ones were allowed to stand.
Here is my first letter of complaint addressed to the Economist:
Sir,
You removed a post of mine under the name of fumanchuck in the comments section of your article 'Go Directly to Jail' from September 12th. The comment was posted on September 17th. I would like an explanation as to why this was done. Unfortunately I did not save a copy of this comment as I in no way saw the possibility of it being removed. The comment was neither abusive nor off topic. I would like a copy of this comment sent back to me with an acceptable explanation. Perhaps you should review who is editing these comments and reevaluate whether they are qualified for the job. I am doubly upset by this as the comment was arguing for free speech. I await your reply.
Charles Sands (Taichung, Taiwan)
Here is the first response:
Dear Sir, The attached comment, posted under the pen name fumanchuck, has been deleted from Economist.com. The comment was removed because it breaks our comments policy: http://www.economist.com/about/terms_and_conditions.cfm#8 We ask that future comments be made in the spirit of good-natured debate. Repeated violation of our comments policy will result in your being blocked from posting comments on Economist.com. Yours sincerely, Comments Moderator Economist.com Your comment: ---------- China bashing? What a joke. The irony of you throngs of Chinese posters that jump all over even the smallest criticism of your country, is that you're demonstrating how you've yet to mature as a truly modern country. You think because you have fast trains it somehow excuses the fact that China doesn't have free speech. Thank God there are those in the West who take time to point out the flaws in China because in your country, doing the same can land you in jail. Why don't you grow up and show how much you really love China by starting to criticize it yourselves. That is the only way it will ever improve. ----------
My second letter of response: Sir, You indicated that I violated your policy but not as to how. I read through your policy before I sent the first letter of complaint and I've read it again now. Would you please be so kind as to enlighten me on the specific portions of my message that violated any one or more specifically stated points in your policy. I would also like to be informed if this letter of reply is being made by the same person who deemed it fit to silence my voice. I will not be satisfied until you fulfill these requests. Sincerely, Charles Sands
The response from the Economist:
Dear Sir, The Economist hosts its forums so that its readers are able to discuss, debate and analyse the article to hand. Your comment was "off-topic" and as such was deleted. Best, Comments Moderator
My third letter of complaint:
Dear Comments Moderator,
It is interesting that you first explained the removal of my comment stating that it was not "in the spirit of good-natured debate", but now you state that the comment is "off topic". Perhaps you reviewed your own comments policy and found that there is no mention of any requirement to be "good-natured". It is also curious to me that you chose to remove my comment for being "off topic", yet you deigned to allow the post that I was responding to and the one's following that refer to my "off topic" message, including the one which mocks my language in nearly incomprehensible, garbled English. Furthermore, perhaps you did not understand that I was providing a critique of how the first message, and others like it, were in fact "off topic" in their accusations of "China bashing".
I have provided them for you here:
justlistenall wrote: September 16, 2009 18:14
On account of this article, many posters have offered good opinions about Mr. Chen Bian’s verdict, Pro and con.
But, do you know why even for a relatively local article on the conviction of Mr. Chen in Taiwan, there are still a few posters with postings after postings to bash Chinese value and system and China’s leaders (It's laughable that some undoubtedly with double poster pen names to play up its postings by the tale telling duet endorsing of each other)?
Here is why in my view:
1. Subconsciously, these posters are resigned to the fact that Taiwan is a part of China and that Taiwanese and Mainlanders are all Chinese. That’s why whenever the word Taiwan is mentioned, it immediately triggers their nerves on matters concerning China.
2. They can’t stand the thought or the fact rather, although they can’t do anything about it that China is awakening and prospering.
China today is Japan’s largest importer, replacing the U.S., that is helpful on Japan’s economy recovery, and China is India’s largest exporter. China is world’s first nation to develop and dispense immunization formula for H1N1; about two weeks ahead of the U.S. which is troubled by more than 400 unfortunate deaths.
China runs worlds fastest regularly scheduled commercial trains (Beijing-Tinjing) at 340 Km/H a clip; and China spends about $30 m a day constructing Beijing-Shanghai high speed railway soon to be finished ….
3. China of course has problems to work at too, and tons of them. These postings just can’t pass up any chance to jump in to ridicule these problems with brutal exaggeration and graphic distortion, wishing in their sick minds that China would remain and get stuck in the problems and the more the merrier for them.
All these words of “human rights”, “totalitarianism”, “ethnic strife” etc. out of their pseudo fancy bashing postings are but abusive cover for their dark side or inside.
Such are the general state of postings of China bashing in my observation on the forum of this article. I feel sorry for these bashing posters.
Then again, they are serving unwittingly as some negative material to remind people to work harder for the good of their country, China, the U.S., India,… indeed whichever their country happens to be.
and...
religionofreason wrote:
On account of this article, many posters have offered good opinions about Mr. Chen Bian’s verdict, Pro and con.
But, do you know why even for a relatively local article on the conviction of Mr. Chen in Taiwan, there are still a few posters with postings after postings to bash Chinese value and system and China’s leaders (It's laughable that some undoubtedly with double poster pen names to play up its postings by the tale telling duet endorsing of each other)?
Here is why in my view:
1. Subconsciously, these posters are resigned to the fact that Taiwan is a part of China and that Taiwanese and Mainlanders are all Chinese. That’s why whenever the word Taiwan is mentioned, it immediately triggers their nerves on matters concerning China.
2. They can’t stand the thought or the fact rather, although they can’t do anything about it that China is awakening and prospering.
China today is Japan’s largest importer, replacing the U.S., that is helpful on Japan’s economy recovery, and China is India’s largest exporter. China is world’s first nation to develop and dispense immunization formula for H1N1; about two weeks ahead of the U.S. which is troubled by more than 400 unfortunate deaths.
China runs worlds fastest regularly scheduled commercial trains (Beijing-Tinjing) at 340 Km/H a clip; and China spends about $30 m a day constructing Beijing-Shanghai high speed railway soon to be finished ….
3. China of course has problems to work at too, and tons of them. These postings just can’t pass up any chance to jump in to ridicule these problems with brutal exaggeration and graphic distortion, wishing in their sick minds that China would remain and get stuck in the problems and the more the merrier for them.
All these words of “human rights”, “totalitarianism”, “ethnic strife” etc. out of their pseudo fancy bashing postings are but abusive cover for their dark side or inside.
Such are the general state of postings of China bashing in my observation on the forum of this article. I feel sorry for these bashing posters.
Then again, they are serving unwittingly as some negative material to remind people to work harder for the good of their country, China, the U.S., India,… indeed whichever their country happens to be.
and...
religionofreason wrote:
September 17, 2009 15:50
Thank God there are those in the China who take time to point out the flaws in West prejudices and politic zealots because in your country, doing the same can land you in minor sideline. Why don't you grow up and show how much you really love democracy by starting to criticize it yourselves. That is the only way it will ever improve and gaining the convincing credit.
Am I to take these as examples of the kind of good-natured, on-topic messages that the Economist encourages, or has there been some kind of an oversight on your part? You can review my removed comment again at the bottom of this message. Please respond.
Sincerely,
Charles Sands
No response for three days. My fourth letter of complaint:
To: The Editor and the Comments Moderator
Dear Mr. or Ms. Moderator,
(I apologize for not knowing the proper form of address as you've tellingly chosen to remain anonymous)
It appears that you have not deigned my last email worthy of response, or perhaps you are at a loss for words. This is unsurprising to me, as it is of course much easier to delete the words of others, than to actually account for your own actions in writing. Besides, not even the greatest barrister in England could justify the disappearance of my comment and the allowance of the preceding and following ones which I provided for your review. I could have provided you with numerous other examples of comments that are equally "off topic", pertaining to the article in question and to others, but that would have been unnecessary. The unjustness and inconsistency of your actions is plain to see.
I am more concerned though, as to why this error occurred. It is a serious matter to silence the voices of others. I wonder if you realize exactly how serious it is. It pertains to the concept of free speech, which you may or may not have noticed was what I was arguing for in my comment. You are an employee of the Economist. This publication has stood as a symbol of the democratic values of openness, accountability and rational thought for more than 150 years. I respectfully submit that your actions pertaining to the deletion of my comment are a disgrace to the institution you represent. I can only hope that this was an isolated occurrence and that your actions are being monitored.
If my case is not an isolated occurrence--if you regularly silence the voices of others, based not on any consistent application of your company's comments policy, but rather on some other criteria known only to yourself--I must infer that you are not suited to the position you now hold. If this is the case, I will make the "good-natured" suggestion that you may find more rewarding work as a censor for an authoritarian government such as that in China. In such a position you will not need to hide behind euphemistic titles such as 'moderator', you can do your censor's work in complete invisibility; blocking web pages, deleting articles, and tearing pages out of publications such as those of your current employer. In such a position you will also not be bothered by the nuisance of accountability.
Here is a quote that you should keep in mind the next time you find your finger quivering over the delete button. I suggest you print it up and post it in your cubicle:
We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
And this, which echos the point of my original comment:
Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart
Here is my comment, once more provided for your review:
> > China bashing? What a joke. The irony of you throngs of Chinese posters that
> > jump all over even the smallest criticism of your country, is that you're
> > demonstrating how you've yet to mature as a truly modern country. You think
> > because you have fast trains it somehow excuses the fact that China doesn't
> > have free speech. Thank God there are those in the West who take time to
> > point out the flaws in China because in your country, doing the same can land
> > you in jail. Why don't you grow up and show how much you really love China by
> > starting to criticize it yourselves. That is the only way it will ever
> > improve.
Sincerely,
Charles Sands
The final response from the moderator:
Dear Mr Sands, Having re-reviewed the comment in question, I agree with your complaint and the comment has been reinstated on our website. Kind regards, Comments Moderator
Final score: Donkey 1 : Moderator 0
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